The last meeting

Our last meeting was in a home and we talked about faith. We chose this to talk about because I thought it was the other end of 'fear'. We touched on the issue of prayer and unanswered prayer but we concluded that faith was not about faith in what God does, but in who God is. This was I felt a big issue. It was also an evening of personal reflection. In fact if there has been a running theme it has been that people have been able to say what they think and listen to what other people have to say and reflect carefully and thoughtfully. On this evening, one perosn in particular had much to think about re faith. Having talked about this and raised issues of crises of faith I used the topic at my next preaching engagement. I talked about the difference between faith that is stretched to the limit trying to reconcile faith in our beliefs and what sems to be overwhelming evidence of scientific 'fact'. It was a powerful service and many people thanked me for bringing this issue out 'into the open'.

As for not seeing clearly...a few weeks ago I suggested that we could keep in touch with each other via e mail or a web site but it wasn't well received. Not sure whether thatwas becasue we didn't know each other too well or they just didn't want to do it. I suggested that we could pray at the same time and we could have a particular time each day when we all knew someone else (me if no one else) would be praying. This was not warmly received, however this week it was suggested by someone else that we could do it. We set two times of the day - 8am and 9pm. I suggestged the northumbria community web site and their daily office. I'll find out tomorrow how we have got on with it. This group seem to be very reflective and so things suggested take time to be 'digested'.

My concern though is how does this differ from being a home group to a new experimental type of meeting. I think that it is a mix of those who like church and those who don't which marks it out as well as the openess and reflective nature. At this meeting we had two new people. If they come again I will know that we are still an open group accessable to those outside the group.

At tomorrow's meeting I was hoping to have someone from a muslim sect (Bah'ia) come to talk to us about how they live out thier life, outside formal structures. This was suggested by someone in the group who works with them. So far though finding a time where we can all meet is a real headache and so this will be postponed until a suitable date can be fixed. If we don't use the internet I'm not sure we can overcome this problem, but they want to meet up in person so until we can think of a solution...

Since we last met

Since the last post we have met three times and they have all been in homes. On the first occasion in a home we ended up talking very intimately about the things that have afected us in a personal way - relationships, marriage and death. I don't remember ever having met and discussed with people such intimate details in this context. I did some counselling a few years ago at a Christian festival and the depth of issues we discussed then was similar to our discussions at Trees Walking. What we are doing here seems to be giving ourselves permission to talk about things we don't normally talk about in a church setting. It may be that we are all linked via Christ but disconnected as far as church goes and so feel the freedom to talk. I wondered how anyone new might come in to the group now it has started to settle. Would we be welcoming?

The next meeting was in my home. I tried to avoid meeting in my home, but my fears of being perceived as the leader seem to be unfounded. It was Shrove Tuesday so we had lots of pancakes and talked about a particular word. I called it 'Food around the Word'. It was a good evening and we had about eight people. I put the word 'Fear' in the middle of the table and we talked generally about it. I chose it because scripture exhorts us more than any other command to not fear. This didn't feel as easy as the other meetings we have had, but it is hard to be objective about this. The point was to to start us thinking about why we are fearful - perhaps about our fear of church or doing church elsewhere. It was also in anticipation of talking about faith later. So far people have come and gone and those who had no connection with church have not attended despite my hopes having spoken to them before we started. It gave me a good ijndication about how likely we were to be evangelistic or missional. The group do not seem to be fearful about taling about our faith but we don't want to impose on others' feelings or faith. We feared imposing on other people when they didn't want it. The faith of the group is very personal. Becoming missional will be a challenge.

We met last night in the pub again - it was quieter, but somehow the chance for sharing more intimate and private issues is more limited. The music was quieter but still not quiet enough. A new venue is needed or a request to turn the music off is needed.

I came away from last night thinking hard. Getting everyone together is difficult and I don't have the personal resources to visit those who can't come (that's assuming they would welcome a visit) and it does begin to put us in the realm of traditional church/pastor which I am trying to resist. Then again I might have to re-think that. As yet we don't seem to want to link up on the computer. I may have misread that. It may be that for that to happen, we need to know each other better and as last night was only our third meeting I may be expecting far too much.

We talked about some very pertinent issues:

1. What is prayer. How do we pray?

2. God is in us. We are God's prayers

3. What is church for?

At first glance it might be obvious what the answer to these questions are, but far from it. We talked about the different ways of praying - words or feelings. We also talked about the difficulty of praying for situations and events. Is the request for a parking space in Sainsbury's too insignificant when hundreds of children have children have needlessly died as we have been en route to the supermarket.
But what was significant was that we touched again on the Holy Spirit's actions in our lives. Why are we sometimes prompted to stop and talk to someone in the street? (and in one instance that was a stranger). The exciting thing for me was that we touched on the idea that we are answer to someone else's prayers. That God is in us and we are the physical works of his hands. This has implications for a theological reflection that others will see God in our lives and as we tell our story, we are announcing the Good News.

This led onto what was church for and here there was some difference of opinion and so I hope that it prompted us to think a little harder. On the one hand church is a time for quiet reflection; not worrying about anything for an hour or so and having some 'time out'. I suggested that church might be a gathering place for us to tell our stories; of what God had done with us and through us during the week - a time to share stories and be reinvigorated to keep on doing things. I'm not sure what we thought about that, but Martyn Atkins' chapter will help to look at that again.

And another thing...

Oh, and we talked a lot about what church was supposed to be for. The thinking was that it didn't connect with us or to put it more kindly, it no longer connects with us. we may talk about this tomorrow (we're meeting in the pub again and as it's a Thursday I hope it will be quieter) and if we do, I might mention Martyn Atkins' chapter in Mission Shaped Questions which focusses on church as mission...but as you know, we are all equal here and so far there hasn't been an agenda.

Our second meeting was a smaller affair and after the noise of the pub, we opted to meet in a home. Interesting because although it was a more intimate setting and we were able to be very open and honest with each other, we all agreed that there was something special about talking about God very openly in a crowded pub environment.

Once again, there was no problem with people talking about things they felt strongly about and we discussed things that were very personal. I think this must be a tribute to the instant bonding of people - kindred spirits if you like, united by a very real desire to connect with God.

One of the things that struck me was that we recognised that we had all gone through phases of life and we had changed considerably over the years. The question arose, 'how does church change to accommodate us as we change?' We talked about it for a while and didn't come to any conclusion.

The other topic of note was that it was easy to identify three of us in Fowler's faith development model (stage 4 and 5). Whilst I appreciate that this model has its critics, it again begs the question of how does church accommodate people as they move from one season of life to another.

Can anyone suggest some books that might give an insight here? I am also wondering now how our group might deal with this should we want to continue to meet after the 12 weeks are up. Does the charisma of the meeting become institutionalised in order to give it longevity or does the group only have a set life-span?

We have had to miss a week so I posted a contemplative exercise on the other blog (5 Feb) so that people didn't feel disconnected.

The Black Bull. Our first meeting

The idea is to discover God in our lives and in the stories we tell to each other. This type of theological reflection is discussed in Graham, Walton and Ward's book Theological Reflection: Methods, chapter 2. Whilst it is true to say that Graham et al focus on the lives of those who acknowledge they have a faith, I believe that God is alive and active in our lives even before we recognise that we have what we can call 'a faith'. Consequently, who ever turned up would still be included and have a valuable part to play in the experiment.

So what happened? Nine people were contacted and expressed an interest. Eight people came along on Friday night to the pub, The Black Bull. At the outset, we set a confidentiality clause so what I can say in the blog is limited. Starbucks coffee was served in Starbucks cups with quotes from famous people on the side, 'the way i see it' setting the scene - there are no wrong answers, just the way we see issues. Most of us didn't know each other, so the fact that anyone turned up at all is very encouraging. I had been studying hard: an ice-breaker; looking at the self; what does it mean to be human; looked at Christian humanism (Oppenheimer/Craske) and secular training literature on being human and knowing oneself; also Thomas Merton's view of the self. I started to ask what we had come here for and the next 90 minutes were taken up with a discussion on church - what we liked about it and what we didn't. How it had failed children by not telling the Bible stories and that church had (largely) lost touch with ordinary people. There was an extraordinary short discussion about losing faith and that church did not tackle these issues. I thought there would be a problem with the group not being able to overcome the fact that I was a Methodist minister...I needn't have bothered, apparently it was the last thing on their minds. We also have a group which is happy with leaderless leadership. We do not have a leader. Despite the fact that most of the group could see serious shortcomings with church they all seem to have a real and deeply personal understanding of God.
I need not have bothered with the ice-breaker or with all the study on Becoming Human as they launched into talking about what was on their minds. When I asked what people wanted to talk about next time we met, they said they didn't want to talk about anything specific...difficult to prepare for that! The group is not what I thought it was going to be as we examined our attitude to church in the main. My thoughts and aims of what the group was going to be will need to be re-evaluated. Keeping in touch via Facebook was rejected in favour of meeting weekly (so much for church for those who are too busy). Unfortunately, the pub was too noisy so this week we are meeting...in a home. At this early stage it's possible that we fall into the category of Francis and Richter's work (see also Alan Jamieson et al). Not what I expected at all.

Our first meeting

We met last night for the first time in the pub...will let you know what happened when I have worked it out myself, but it was a great night and not what I had expected at all.